I'm reading a book currently that is somewhat agreeing with what you write especially about Christianity, but sees a role for religion (perhaps a new type of religion) in reshaping our worldview that led us to this climate crisis. Perhaps it will lead the religion topic into a new direction. The book is called 'Ecological Imaginations in the World Religions: An Ethnographic Analysis' by Tony Watling.
Sounds interesting. Anything that brings us closer to understanding the impact that unfettered capitalist growth has had on the climate is good for me - especially if it builds a new framework that gets us closer to repairing the damage we are doing. If it needs a quasi-religious structure then I am OK with that, so long as it is ultimately rooted in science and fact. I for one would hate to have to explain to my great grandkids how we screwed the planet for them, just so we could maximise short term profits for ourselves.
I’m enjoying your blogs - very amusing! As regards religion, I’m not a religious person at all, my religion is a part of me but I don’t see the need for attending a religious institution.
I'm with you on religion (and all the other codgery stuff you complain about....trout pouts, mobile zombies etc did you mention tattoos?). I just don't get it.
I guess we all go through childhood and adolescence and do some daft things. What I fail to grasp is why 'adults' continue to do these things. I wonder if it just comes down to the fact that a huge swathe of the population never actually reach what you'd call intellectual maturity? I got into a bit of an online 'discussion' with some fans of an an American evangelist and I just didn't have the ammunition to deal with the stupidity of what was coming back at me. 'It must be true because it's in the bible!' These people have given up all reason either because they're stupid or just too plain lazy to think for themselves. Perhaps both.
Great to find a fellow codger! Yes - I did mention tattoos in my post 'Don't look that way' last year (https://jonathanposner.substack.com/p/dont-look-that-way). I am very impressed that you tried to reason with televangelist fans - but sadly, not surprised that their minds were closed. When their entire world view is built round the bible and the pastor and the church, they simply don't have any other frame of reference!
There is a simple presupposition that underpins all the religious nonsense we are forced to listen to now i.e. that there is god that gives a fuck what we do or think and is willing to intercede based upon our requests to him.
I don't know if there is a god or not, but I'm pretty clear in my own mind that if he does exist he doesn't care what a mid-western shit farming septic thinks, nor someone doing an impression of a nodding dog against a wall in Jerusalem, nor some other fool head down arse up in a desert shit-hole somewhere who thinks they are talking to him. The issue is a lack of logic. Not sure if was Hitchins, Dawkins or Harris who came up with the argument about the likelihood of this god choosing a bronze age middle eastern dump such as palestine or medina to pitch up and give his laws to the world via illiterate tribesmen. FFS. The fools I got into the argument with actually believe they have the direct word from god and he listens to their prayers.
Agree! And I would add a point based on the differences between all religions since recorded history; if you accept that they can't all be right, then the only logical explanation is that none of them are!
Fanaticism of any sort is problematic. Ideological fanatics, religious fanatics, football fanatics... Religion is of great solace to many, has been the inspiration for the most beautiful architecture, music, art, and quietly practiced bothers no one.
You can't just write it off as not fit for purpose in the modern age. Indeed, the modern age is so desperately in need of boundaries that some are turning to religion for ready-made ones. Islam is the world's fastest growing religion, more than twice as fast as the overall global population.
Personally I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole, and I do believe that man-made religious tend to favour the comfort of men rather than women, but everyone is different, and if they want to have faith and practice in their own personal (non-violent) way, who is anyone else to say they are wrong?
Plus there are aspects of the Christian celebrations and services that are incredibly moving, and are also part of our cultural heritage. I wouldn't want to see them fade miserably away because life would be less rich and colourful.
Many thanks Sarah, and I really appreciate your comments. My concern is that if you accept all the good stuff - the comfort, the moving services, the architecture, art and the music, do you also have to accept the other stuff too? The scaring and indoctrinating of children, the misogyny, the denial of scientific thinking, the fanaticism? Maybe a world where the good stuff stands alone - where we have great art, moving music, excellent architecture, but without basing them on religion - would be a better alternative?
With humans, you have to take the good with the bad. People are not universally sensible, logical or rational. Most are not, come to think of it. Alain de Botton created a list of 10 virtues for atheists, along similar lines to the boundaries outlined in the 10 Commandments. I think a lot of people have rejected religion but have not replaced it with anything except instant gratification, entitlement and selfishness. This is not good for society either. We all need boundaries for social cohesion. My worry is that a some point the pendulum will swing right back the other way and some form of authoritarianism will become gradually attractive to all the lost souls. We are already in the grip of ideological authoritarianism with Wokeness. Extremes are never good.
I'm reading a book currently that is somewhat agreeing with what you write especially about Christianity, but sees a role for religion (perhaps a new type of religion) in reshaping our worldview that led us to this climate crisis. Perhaps it will lead the religion topic into a new direction. The book is called 'Ecological Imaginations in the World Religions: An Ethnographic Analysis' by Tony Watling.
Sounds interesting. Anything that brings us closer to understanding the impact that unfettered capitalist growth has had on the climate is good for me - especially if it builds a new framework that gets us closer to repairing the damage we are doing. If it needs a quasi-religious structure then I am OK with that, so long as it is ultimately rooted in science and fact. I for one would hate to have to explain to my great grandkids how we screwed the planet for them, just so we could maximise short term profits for ourselves.
I’m enjoying your blogs - very amusing! As regards religion, I’m not a religious person at all, my religion is a part of me but I don’t see the need for attending a religious institution.
Thanks Shirley - much appreciated and noted.
I'm with you on religion (and all the other codgery stuff you complain about....trout pouts, mobile zombies etc did you mention tattoos?). I just don't get it.
I guess we all go through childhood and adolescence and do some daft things. What I fail to grasp is why 'adults' continue to do these things. I wonder if it just comes down to the fact that a huge swathe of the population never actually reach what you'd call intellectual maturity? I got into a bit of an online 'discussion' with some fans of an an American evangelist and I just didn't have the ammunition to deal with the stupidity of what was coming back at me. 'It must be true because it's in the bible!' These people have given up all reason either because they're stupid or just too plain lazy to think for themselves. Perhaps both.
Great to find a fellow codger! Yes - I did mention tattoos in my post 'Don't look that way' last year (https://jonathanposner.substack.com/p/dont-look-that-way). I am very impressed that you tried to reason with televangelist fans - but sadly, not surprised that their minds were closed. When their entire world view is built round the bible and the pastor and the church, they simply don't have any other frame of reference!
There is a simple presupposition that underpins all the religious nonsense we are forced to listen to now i.e. that there is god that gives a fuck what we do or think and is willing to intercede based upon our requests to him.
I don't know if there is a god or not, but I'm pretty clear in my own mind that if he does exist he doesn't care what a mid-western shit farming septic thinks, nor someone doing an impression of a nodding dog against a wall in Jerusalem, nor some other fool head down arse up in a desert shit-hole somewhere who thinks they are talking to him. The issue is a lack of logic. Not sure if was Hitchins, Dawkins or Harris who came up with the argument about the likelihood of this god choosing a bronze age middle eastern dump such as palestine or medina to pitch up and give his laws to the world via illiterate tribesmen. FFS. The fools I got into the argument with actually believe they have the direct word from god and he listens to their prayers.
Agree! And I would add a point based on the differences between all religions since recorded history; if you accept that they can't all be right, then the only logical explanation is that none of them are!
Fanaticism of any sort is problematic. Ideological fanatics, religious fanatics, football fanatics... Religion is of great solace to many, has been the inspiration for the most beautiful architecture, music, art, and quietly practiced bothers no one.
You can't just write it off as not fit for purpose in the modern age. Indeed, the modern age is so desperately in need of boundaries that some are turning to religion for ready-made ones. Islam is the world's fastest growing religion, more than twice as fast as the overall global population.
Personally I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole, and I do believe that man-made religious tend to favour the comfort of men rather than women, but everyone is different, and if they want to have faith and practice in their own personal (non-violent) way, who is anyone else to say they are wrong?
Plus there are aspects of the Christian celebrations and services that are incredibly moving, and are also part of our cultural heritage. I wouldn't want to see them fade miserably away because life would be less rich and colourful.
Many thanks Sarah, and I really appreciate your comments. My concern is that if you accept all the good stuff - the comfort, the moving services, the architecture, art and the music, do you also have to accept the other stuff too? The scaring and indoctrinating of children, the misogyny, the denial of scientific thinking, the fanaticism? Maybe a world where the good stuff stands alone - where we have great art, moving music, excellent architecture, but without basing them on religion - would be a better alternative?
With humans, you have to take the good with the bad. People are not universally sensible, logical or rational. Most are not, come to think of it. Alain de Botton created a list of 10 virtues for atheists, along similar lines to the boundaries outlined in the 10 Commandments. I think a lot of people have rejected religion but have not replaced it with anything except instant gratification, entitlement and selfishness. This is not good for society either. We all need boundaries for social cohesion. My worry is that a some point the pendulum will swing right back the other way and some form of authoritarianism will become gradually attractive to all the lost souls. We are already in the grip of ideological authoritarianism with Wokeness. Extremes are never good.